Monday, September 29, 2008

The bailout.

The biggest issue at the moment seems to be the bailout. I don't think we can do nothing, but I am loathe to leave it in the hands of those who created the problem and now tell us we must give them open access to our financial markets and our wallets so that they can fix it. Anyone who voted to give Democrats control of congress and the senate or who sat aside and let the Democrats take control and lock out the adults have little to complain about. Of course the children had a kegger party and went wild. Nothing the Democrats did to the markets should be a surprise to anyone who has been watching them for the last thirty years. The warning was sounded several times but the Republicans had to be taught a lesson. While I agree there was reason to punish, this was like punishing them for getting drunk by making them drive home, with us in the back seat. Now something must be done and the people we must look to are the ones who got us here and have proven they can not be trusted to put our interests ahead of politics, even in a crisis. Not looking good. I have read what I can of the proposals and while I feel better about this than I did about the original piece of garbage I just don't know if it's good enough. The adults just have very little leverage.

The site I have the most respect for on these matters is Powerline. This is their take so far.

I am not happy just now. I feel like I'm on the operating table for difficult surgery and the Doctors are half gassed and playing grabass as they cut inside me.


MeadowLark said...

I just gotta ask (can't leave well enough alone, I suppose!)...

Do you really see the world as Democrats all bad, Republicans all good? I might be reading it wrong, but it sure seems that way.

And you know how I feel: POLITICANS ALL BAD, no matter which party ;)

Machinist said...

Hi, Meadowlark! Please continue asking!

The answer is, of course not. I have and have had serious issues with George Bush and the Republicans. This particular issue is one that was very much a Democratic program, however, and the Republicans have tried to sound the alarm and reign it in several times. The idea of Obama, who supported this program and helped block reform, blaming McCain, who tried to reform it over two years ago, is a particularly tasty bit of hippocracy, but unless I missed something, the Republicans had the power, if not the courage, to change this when they were in the majority. It was this lack of courage irresponsible behavior that led conservatives to sit out the elections and let the Democrats get back in. The Republican leadership have never been Reagan type conservatives. They jumped on Reagan's bandwagon when he rallied incredible bipartisan support and worked to undo his influence as soon as Bush Sr. was sworn in. He was much more what they wanted.

In general I want smaller, less intrusive government and while the Republicans need much change in this area the very idea is anathema to the Democrats. The Democratic party has moved dangerously far to the left. The Republican party has also shifted to the left but it can still be rational and I try to do what I can to move the party in what I think is the right direction.

I will say, as my earlier post said, that the really abusive smears and tactics have mainly come from the left. I have seen no attacks on the children of Democrats. There is no Republican counterpart to ACORN's taxpayer funded thuggery and voter fraud efforts. When right wing wackos sound off the Republicans are quick to condemn them and marginalize them. The left wing wackos now heavily influence the Democratic platform and the party leaders attend their conventions. We need to responsible parties. I would love to see the Democratic party that my parents and I used to support, come around to a more responsible ideology.

Machinist said...

Meadowlark, I do hope you realize how very welcome your questions, comments, challenges, criticisms, and OPINIONS are. I love a reasonable discussion where all points of view are welcomed. I solicit and respect your outlook and opinions.

MeadowLark said...

You know, I just read someplace about how the Dems see it almost the opposite. That they're mad at their own party because they (congress) didn't do something when it could have been done.

See, it's stuff like this that makes me yearn for something different. And I don't know what that DIFFERENT would be. But there has to be something. I'm starting to think Revolution is a good idea. :)

Machinist said...

The problem with revolution is that it rarely works out as intended. Most of the worst dictators in history were put into power by people wanting freedom and equality. It's why I think we were blessed to have the leaders we did. They were human beings with human failings but they were people who would have done quite well as British subject but were willing to risk all for freedom as it had never been seen. Look at the conduct of some members on the first continental congress during war time and it is all too familiar, but when the time came our founding fathers created the finest governing document ever conceived by the mind of man. It was the best chance mankind has had to rise above out baser natures. Unfortunately we have turned our back on it and I really don't know if it is too late to recover or not. I do know revolution as almost no chance of achieving that goal and it will likely be a long time before mankind will likely get such a chance again. It is worth working to salvage what we had, and that will only happen by working within one of the parties to move it in the right direction.

Machinist said...

The program that brought us to this was a Democratic program and it's been expanded and protected by Democrats like Frank and Dodd who were supposed to be regulating it. The top three recipients of contributions from Fannie Mae are Dems, number one being Dodd, who was head of the committee that was supposed to regulate them, and number two being Obama. That said I hear many Republicans who are furious and disgusted that the Republicans didn't stop this when they could. When you have the Whitehouse and both houses of the Legislature you have little excuse. To blame Bush however is just upside down. I have many problems with President Bush and I am outraged at the bailout he proposed, but he is not to blame for what the Congress has done. While he is too liberal for me he has been an honest and decent man and the contrast with his predecessor has been stark in this respect. He has also kept us safe for seven years when we had been under regular attack before without effective response. I would rather have had Cheney at the top of the ticket but Bush has done well as a wartime president.

MeadowLark said...

Glad the bailout failed. But when I was reading the different things that had been voted on earlier by the senate, I was (not) surprised to see this:

Division B - $22.9 billion in emergency supplemental appropriations for relief and recovery from hurricanes, floods, and other natural disasters.
That makes sense.
Division C - $487.7 billion in FY09 funding for the Department of Defense.
Division D - $40 billion in FY09 funding for the Department of Homeland Security.
Division E - $72.9 billion in FY09 funding for Military Construction and Veterans Affairs.

Nothing a spare $600 and some billion won't fix.

It only makes me mad because while the focus was on the bailout, they quietly did their own thing, which they KNOW would have been cause for debate had there not been something else on the radar.


Machinist said...

Hi, Meadowlark. I did not like the bailout, though it had been improved considerably. I am finding mixed opinions on what is needed. I just hope we don't see the Democrats move back to their original bill and sweeten it up to buy off their voters. They have the votes to pass this without Republicans if they do so. The original bill was so bad I would prefer to let things crash. I would like to see some insurance measures , paid for by the banks who benefit, but I do not want our markets handed over to the clowns that messed this up. I am furious that the Republicans had a majority for twelve years and were too busy trading earmarks to deal with this. Plenty of people sounded the alarm. This was very much started, expanded, and supported by Democrats however, and I absolutely do not trust them to fix it.

What we face could be very bad but I don't know that what is being proposed won't make things worse. I

As for defense spending I am glad it's being increased. Most of the general categories I have no problem with though I have not looked too closely at it. I would like to see more in some areas such as space and missile defense. In terms of space I would like some more support for private companies, though I have some indirect interests there.

What do you object to on this? With your background I am very interested.

MeadowLark said...

My objection is only to the "let's sneak this $600+ Billion through while they're looking the other way" mentality.

And don't get me started on the Homeland Defense Budget. I'm thinking there's something like $9 Billion that's going to teach people how to seize & read your computer in case you're ever deemed a "threat". GRRRRRR.

Machinist said...

The Homeland Defense budget is another matter. That I have worries about. There are needs that should be addressed but this department may be too big in size and scope to monitor properly, and it MUST be closely watched. The kind of mentality seen in ATF in a department of this scope and power would be frightening in ANY administration. Our legislature has not shown the kind of maturity or sense of honor to earn my confidence or trust.

Machinist said...

Oh, carp!! Did we just AGREE!!!!!

MeadowLark said...

Quick! Let me change my mind.

Actually, I thought we agreed fairly often. You just have more time to be thoughtful and put some effort into your opinions. ;) I have to make stuff up and then figure out if that's what I really think.

Machinist said...


We do agree on much. More important I think is that we share some common values, if I may be so presumptuous.

Your thoughts, feelings, and OPINIONS are welcomed and valued at many sites. We both know this to be true so don't bother denying it.

Plus you are the master of the ravioli!!

Machinist said...

WARNING! Agreeing with me may not be good for your reputation.

MeadowLark said...


Woot Woot!

Machinist said...

But do you make lasagna?

SillyBlindHarper said...

Oh dear, gentle Mac, are you ruining reputations again? heh.
Meadowlark, hello! It's nice to meet you. Please pay no attention to the machinist behind the curtain -- agreeing with his opinions is usually good, always enlightening, and he has cookies!

Mac, I appreciate the view you have expressed here and in other places about working from within to move things in the direction one is able to support. I'll admit, it's easy to lurch toward nihilistic disgust and opt out...but that doesn't get anything done and it isn't my way to just let things go that way, no matter who provides the handbasket. You remind me of what I need to keep foremost in my thoughts at this time. Thank you, Sir.

Now, I'll just put this pitchfork down over there by my torch...

G'nite, friend.


SillyBlindHarper said...


"I'll admit, it's easy to lurch toward nihilistic disgust and opt out..."
Should read:
I'll admit, it's easy for meto lurch toward nihilistic disgust and opt out...

Machinist said...

Gentle Lady, it seems to be too easy for a number of us, as we've seen.

MeadowLark said...

I'm holding onto my pitchfork and torch, thank you very much. I am soooooo very angry.

And I haven't made lasagna in ages. Sounds tasty though.